Automated Gathering

Discussion in 'Shards Discussion' started by Vorspire, Sep 10, 2016.

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Pick An Action

Poll closed Sep 12, 2016.
  1. Revise (No Change, Lighter Punishments)

    5.9%
  2. Revise (No Change, Harsher Punishments)

    5.9%
  3. Revise (No Change, Improve AFK Detection)

    11.8%
  4. No Change

    5.9%
  5. Repeal (No Staff Enforcement)

    70.6%
  1. Vorspire

    Vorspire Administrator Developer

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    Specifically:
    It has come to our attention that the automated gathering rule is simply not working.

    Not only are people outright ignoring this rule, but they are going out of their way to break it and don't care about the consequences.
    Keeping tabs on this is taking up a lot of staff time that could be better spent elsewhere, however, rules are rules and we will enforce them for as long as they exist and are in practise - whether we agree with them or not.

    We are sick of jailing people who just want to have fun, we really don't want to jail people for breaking this rule.
    This rule is primarily designed to prevent economic disaster, but it's more applicable in the first few weeks of a shard's life.

    So, today, my proposal is, that we repeal this rule and begin allowing automated gathering.

    This DOES NOT mean that you can gather while AFK. It just means that we will no longer enforce or enact severe punishments for being caught doing it. You will NOT be allowed to step away from your computer while automating your gathering.

    We will no longer initiate AFK checks, you wil have the freedom to play as you wish.
    An automated, much less intrusive AFK-checking system will be implemented and may even do things like double your resources if you answer correctly - answering incorrectly would have you kicked offline, but not jailed.

    THIS IS A PROPOSAL AND IS NOT SET IN STONE, THE CONTENT DISCUSSED IN THIS THREAD IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE AND MUST BE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED BY ALL SENIOR TEAM MEMBERS.

    Please leave your opinions; how would this change make you feel? How do you think it would affect the shard? Please give at least one good point and one bad point where possible in order for us to see which steps will be necessary to take to make things better.

    Current Team Opinions:

    Punkte - Undecided
    Vorspire - Repeal
    DMurphy - Undecided
    Shadow Lurker - Repeal
    Link - Undecided
    Mia - Repeal
     
  2. iceman2kx

    iceman2kx Neophyte

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    IMO unless you are going to enforce the rule with a punishment that will actually make people want to avoid AFK gathering, the rule is pointless and might as well be done away with. I don't think anyone is in favor of enforcing rules that could potentially make people mad to the point of them saying 'screw this' and go play another game.
     
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  3. Blue Demon

    Blue Demon Neophyte

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    I think afk checking on taming is kinda silly as it does nothing to the economy, but allowing afk resource gather makes ingots/leather worthless, maybe even gold if you afk gather gold(can also just make a script that mines,creates item and sells it.). just make harsher on second offence, because first offence can happen to anyone, I think running a script is fine as long as you're not afk. if you're semi afk you're risking it and that's why first offence is like 1 day jail or w/e and imo second offence should be char delete/perma jail, as if you get caught realise you either 100% attend or take your chances. that's what I did with taming, I think it should not be illegal as it has no benfit to the server so I just ran script afk until first offence and that's it.

    edit: I think if you're gonna remove the enforce part then you should also remove the option to sell things to npcs, will minimize damage to economy. also still I think afk macro gold farm should be acct ban if not ip ban on first offence as it just ruins the server. if ore/leather will not be worth much it's not server changing thing and it's of much smaller consequence if it's not translated to gold.
    tldr: minimize economy damage, remove enforcing on things that don't hurt the shard much, increase the punishment on things like afk gold bots.
     
  4. Baubau

    Baubau Newbie

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    i think jail is ok , delete 15 days resource ( like punkte did for one time i was afk (phone) after 10 check in a day ) isn't.
     
  5. Vorspire

    Vorspire Administrator Developer

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    I'd rather prevent than punish wherever possible.

    If I can code something that's good enough to prevent AFK'ing in the first place, then no one will be able to break the rule in the first place, thus no one needs to be punished.
    That would be my ideal solution.
     
    Mia likes this.
  6. SoulWeaver

    SoulWeaver Neophyte

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    Im all for it i've been playing UO for 18 years. Scripting, and afk gathering is going to happen and there really is no stopping without wasting time, resources and or making people who gather it manual have a shitty ass time with afk check menu's etc.... but im sure any decent programmer can build something around any anti-afk software put in and that person will have the complete advantage over everyone else who cant do it.... So its better just making it legal so people can run their macros and gather etc.

    I am all for it in my opinion allow afk gathering just put in more gold sinks or hell put in Resource sinks like the Libary system where people donate their resources for deco or other things, that traded for gold, and then have gold sinks etc going in and the economy can balance out, its not hard to get gold spent by developing things people want to spend it on.
     
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  7. OaksVirals

    OaksVirals Newbie

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    Repeal the rule. Allow AFK resource gathering. Disable selling these resources to any NPCs (just cause).
    What's the outcome here?:
    • Resources drop in price for player to player transactions.
    • Trade Skill characters become cheaper to make.
    • Easier craftsman mean more runics in the game.
    • Also lowers prices on crafting related power scrolls.
    What could be some possible counter balances?:
    • Failed AFK check = a % loss of trade skills for X amount of time. So then base mining would drop from 100 to 60?
    • Failed AFK check = trammel resource drop rates for X amount of time.
    • Disable all selling of base resources to NPCs.
    • Increase skill gain difficulty for all gathering & trade skills.
    • Have all resources drop at trammel rates.
    Just a couple thoughts here. If the AFK system could detect for resource gathering automatically that would be ideal. Check for usage of certain items like shovels X amount of times in a row and then auto pop. Then make the punishment one of the options I listed instead of jailing.
     
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  8. Midas

    Midas Alpha Tester

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    i feel like i remember someone saying that afk gathering will result in deletion of materials and gold from accounts.
    if you allow this to happen i feel it would be in the shards best interest to open a steam/razor wiki with approved non afk scripts.
    currently im actually trying to farm materials and mine for materials however i am seeing alot of AFK resource gathering. IMO its not about how much $$ someone has at this point its about the fact that its an unfair advantage to have a script that can do it. if you allow scripted "unafk" gathering you should make it much easier for the people that dont know how to do it as well it would result in a lot less lack of interest in the game. However this being said the negative part about you saying your no longer going to enforce it with strict penalties means that most people wont give it a second thought and will afk while they go to work/school.

    I would like to cast my vote for harsher punishments until a further desicion can be made and if the decision to make it is finalized as not enforced then a link on this homepage should direct me to steam scripts so everyone has the same advantage.
     
    Mia likes this.
  9. Backhander

    Backhander Newbie

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    I don't like any unattended gathering at all if you want to play the game then play it. That being said I don't see how scripts for gathering can be stopped. I like the idea for if you are going to make it legal at least have links for scripts that everyone can see and use.. also cut off selling crafted items sold to npcs.
     
  10. Vorspire

    Vorspire Administrator Developer

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    There are players that offer script-writing services, you may treat that like any other service or craft and commission them if you wish.

    I'd rather not pour resources into maintaining a script repository, but I don't see an issue with having a forum for people to request or share them, if that's what people want.
     
  11. SoulWeaver

    SoulWeaver Neophyte

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    I'd be happy to post up a library of scripts, most will need edits to make them work cause of the GUMP ids etc that change from server to server but once properly changed they should work. I would be happy to contribute, to make it equal grounds for everyone if this goes through


    Extra Thoughts Ideas just spewing this out

    "
    disable the sales for npcs so no new gold is being created, off resources., player vendor sales only, so the economy and gold is just moving and cycling from players, also could make donation vendors for resources to get house decoo and stuff like that nothing to give anyone an advantage..... then people can really get into completing some of these guild quests that can be time consuming with a small guild or not as active guild they can run stuff afk begin getting xp, credits, guild bonus's etc.


    You could add menu checks and if people do answer the menu checks maybe they get double resources for 30 minutes or 60 minutes so they get a bonus for being there or vice versa, if you dont answer it you get a 25% loss of resources or something to that effect.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2016
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  12. Mr. Alitus

    Mr. Alitus Newbie

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    What was the final disposition of this effort? Was the rule ever repealed in favor of a more script-friendly solution?
     
  13. Punkte

    Punkte Administrator Community Manager Developer

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    TBH, our old detection method was ripped out and it was never replaced back in. We haven't really got to replacing it. In terms of right now, fully AFK macroing gathering is still considered illegal. Until we have a different system in that does it automatically.

    That being said, a GM will have to check you personally. So yes, you can still get your resources deleted and go to jail if you are fully unattended AFK gathering. Staff aren't checking very often on it, but randomly it will happen.
     
  14. Superguy

    Superguy Newbie

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    How will automated resource gathering be handled on the T2A shard? I'm not in favor of automated gathering and hope to see some sort of enforcement and punishment system in place, without that I will likely pass on the shard as I believe that this opens a door for other play styles for those that are willing to put in the effort. Curious to know how this will be handled on T2A. Thanks.
     
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  15. Vorspire

    Vorspire Administrator Developer

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    This has been addressed in full and we have installed a new in-house anti-AFK feature that presents you with a puzzle to solve every so often. So far it has proven to be reliable on AOS and will be live on T2A at launch. So don't fret about automated resource gathering! Everyone will be on a level playing field. Currently with the system in place, there is no need to dish out harsh punishments like jail or ban, because the system is pretty much impossible to circumvent. If abuse is detected, you are locked out of "using" any skills for 5 minutes minimum. The system is in action now on T2A TC if you'd like to see it working before the shard is closed for the week leading up to launch.

    Thanks for taking interest, hope you do check us out :)
     
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  16. Superguy

    Superguy Newbie

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    Thanks Vorspire, glad to hear it.
     
  17. Punkte

    Punkte Administrator Community Manager Developer

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    To elaborate futher...

    Because Anti-AFK systems can be a "pain" sometimes. We have also added, when we built this, a feature that allows you to feel "invigorated" when you answer the puzzle, making it so your next successful gathering attempt mines the entire node dry in one attempt.
     
  18. Mr. Alitus

    Mr. Alitus Newbie

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    This will really help keep us normal working folk from getting economically crushed by the "automatons" and their scripts...
     

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